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Dan Harden & Aiki/Sangen

Japanilaiset lajit

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rotor
ilmaanpotkija
Viestit tässä aiheessa: 15
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Dan Harden & Aiki/Sangen

#1

Viesti rotor »

I apologize for the English-only post, as I'm an American, relatively new to Finland and living in Hyvinkää...

I train a system designed to isolate and improve "aiki" as a specific quality, which I learned from Dan Harden. But given where I am, and what it is, I am having problems finding people to train it with, and I could really use some dedicated training partner of some sort.

Depending on Dan's reputation or not, maybe you have heard of him. But I can try to explain what it is I train for those who might be interested. The "aiki" here is derived from Daito Ryu, but the system is not Daito Ryu, nor is it Aikido, and the qualities that it works on building are very difficult to train even with specific methods, let alone to try and learn them by doing techniques.

So, in that sense, there are absolutely no techniques nor forms/kata to learn, because the things it works on are very rudimentary, below the level of technique, building an "aiki body" that can make those techniques easier to do. It is more similar almost to a kind of yoga that builds a type of soft, spiraling power, and has many similarities to systems like taichi, despite being entirely unrelated to it.

This type of "aiki body", built on understanding how to utilize spiral intent, both makes it harder for people to feel power that you are applying to them, so that in the limit they are unable to resist it, and also makes it harder for people to feel how to apply power to you, so that you can more easily neutralize any throws or things people do to you without the use of any techniques. You essentially turn your body into a gyroscopic blender that chews up any force people put into it.

It is a very practical and no-nonsense method, but at the same time it is very difficult to do, and requires dedicated and daily body conditioning work, moreso than anything else, outside of any paired training, to make any real progress with, so buyer beware. But paired training is still really needed to test the results of the solitary work in reality, and make sure it is training in the right things and progressing.

For me, I use it as a way of improving my judo right now (which I also do), but I can't find any judo people interested in working this material, despite it being highly relevant and interesting for improving that. And to reiterate the point, this stuff is hard to train, even when going retardedly slow, in isolation, without someone trying to wrestle and submit you, so add on the fact that the only real opportunities I have to train it right now is in randori where the opponent doesn't even know I'm trying to train it and obviously doesn't care anyway, so it doesn't work out so well. :? :lol:

Never the less, this could also be of great interest to any Aikido or Daito Ryu practitioners, because it works on the core technical skill of these arts, "aiki", without the distraction of having to learn any techniques first or Japanese mythology/cultural overlays.

I have trained with Dan a few years now, so I feel I am adequately able to explain it to others at this point, but due to the difficulty of finding people to train with in a slow and focused manner, I still have difficulty in bridging it into my judo and using it in application, so I would really like to find someone nearby interested in learning and working the material with me. And Dan, also, is nagging me that I need to find people to train with more by this point. ;)

I can point to Dan's site for people who might want some more vague info on what it is, though not much more is described there really: http://www.bodyworkseminars.org/

If someone is interested in training this, you can also contact/email me at lsalzman@gmail.com
That email address is already spammed to hell and back, so make sure to put aiki in the subject-line if you email me to get through the spam filter. :lol:
Kuvake
Mika
etupotkija
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Seeking training parters for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#2

Viesti Mika »

Welcome aboard! :tervetuloa:

Is this a video of your Sensei?

[youtube][/youtube]
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Zen, I haz it.

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rotor
ilmaanpotkija
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Seeking training parters for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#3

Viesti rotor »

Nope, there are no videos of him. If there were, there would be no hakamas, and instead of calling him sensei we would be calling him 'shithead', if that tells you anything? :)

But I want to stress, what you even see in that video, it has no relation to what Dan is doing, so people don't get the wrong idea.
Kuvake
Mika
etupotkija
Viestit tässä aiheessa: 8
Viestit: 93972
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Yhteystiedot:

Seeking training parters for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#4

Viesti Mika »

I think it does. :D

It seems he is more or less active in giving seminars here and there. That is saying something. Is he also involved in Japanese weaponry?

I know this is a little off-topic, but hopefully you don't mind. :) I would think people are at least a little curious about your teacher as his methods are not well known in Finland.
ไม่เป็นไร
Zen, I haz it.

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Potki etuja!
rotor
ilmaanpotkija
Viestit tässä aiheessa: 15
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#5

Viesti rotor »

Dan does weapons, but his weapons training (koryu) is strictly private, not something he will do publicly at seminars or teach to people he does not personally know well.

Re: videos, now, the following is not a video of Dan, and it's kinda an old/not great one for that matter, but it is a video of someone (Akuzawa Minoru) who does similar sorts things, in that he is using koryu-derived movement mechanics, but freestyling with them. He moves different, and is sourcing from an entirely different set of mechanics than Dan, but the sort of power there is indicative:

[youtube][/youtube]

I have incidentally also trained with Akuzawa a bit. He is a fun guy too. :D
Kuvake
Mika
etupotkija
Viestit tässä aiheessa: 8
Viestit: 93972
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Yhteystiedot:

Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#6

Viesti Mika »

Okay, Aunkai, then again, is something members of Potku do know. So, there's a bridge. :)

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Ikkyu
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#7

Viesti Ikkyu »

I've read a lot of Dan's own writings on different fora and experiences of people who have trained with him (some of whom I have great respect for, like Ellis Amdur), and he really seems like the real deal. Though I have to admit that my first thoughts years ago were "wow, what an arrogant asshole". He has, or at least had, some pretty strong opinions on certain things.

At this moment I've enough work to do with my own training, but it's great to know that there's now a chance to train his system so close by. I hope someone takes it.
rotor
ilmaanpotkija
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#8

Viesti rotor »

Ikkyu kirjoitti: I've read a lot of Dan's own writings on different fora and experiences of people who have trained with him (some of whom I have great respect for, like Ellis Amdur), and he really seems like the real deal. Though I have to admit that my first thoughts years ago were "wow, what an arrogant asshole". He has, or at least had, some pretty strong opinions on certain things.

At this moment I've enough work to do with my own training, but it's great to know that there's now a chance to train his system so close by. I hope someone takes it.
Dan can be, uh, intimidating when he wants to make a point, especially in writing, yet it's from a genuine desire to get the word out and help people learn this stuff. But when you get in the room with him he's a big old softie. :lol:
Lasse Candé
etupotkija
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#9

Viesti Lasse Candé »

Very interesting!
I guess this could be the Dan from whom a Wado karate sensei has learned stuff from. Winding-exercise etc.

I hope you find someone to train with! That's good stuff.
rotor
ilmaanpotkija
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#10

Viesti rotor »

Lasse Candé kirjoitti: Very interesting!
I guess this could be the Dan from whom a Wado karate sensei has learned stuff from. Winding-exercise etc.

I hope you find someone to train with! That's good stuff.
Leaving out names to protect the innocent, but Dan does have a certain friend, yes. :D
rotor
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#11

Viesti rotor »

So, it was pointed out to me that maybe people are unfamiliar with Dan or not sure what this method is. In one last try to see if I can generate some more interest, I will try to give a better brief explanation (with some videos) to show the ideas of the work.

An idea of the quality underlying all of it, in 2 dimensions, is shown in this picture:
Kuva

The most important part is the neutral fulcrum, labeled "support". It never puts forces back into things that push on it. It never pulls away from things either. It just supports anything that comes into contact with it.

Once the neutral support ("man") is in place, two opposing forces ("heaven" and "earth") are expressed through the support point, so that anything that comes into contact feels both these forces of uprooting/crushing and simultaneously being drawn into a void, yet always never in the direction the contact is putting force.

For this to be more than a cheap parlor trick/gimmick, you first train the body to be able to simultaneously have every point on its surface act as a neutral support. Then, you learn how to use spirals expressed in the body to put these two opposing forces of "heaven" and "earth", in 3 dimensions, everywhere along the surface of the body that is "man", the neutral support that joins these opposing forces.

There are some videos of another student showing how to apply these concepts to aikido techniques, William Gleason of Shobu Aikido. Hopefully the above explanation will allow you to see what he's doing:

[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

I would like to again stress that what he is showing are ways to apply aiki to aikido techniques. The method of training aiki into the body does not involve training in aikido or its techniques, and it is not limited to only those. He is not showing the methods by which to train it into the body that makes it useful beyond techniques, and those methods of training aiki into the body are rather what I would like training partners for.

I hope this clarifies it a bit more, without getting too deep!
Lasse Candé
etupotkija
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#12

Viesti Lasse Candé »

Please do get deep. :D

Do you also call heaven-earth-man Ten chi jin?

We also have this concept in Wado and a technical interpretation would have to do with ideas about standing etc.
rotor
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#13

Viesti rotor »

Lasse Candé kirjoitti: Please do get deep. :D

Do you also call heaven-earth-man Ten chi jin?

We also have this concept in Wado and a technical interpretation would have to do with ideas about standing etc.
Ten/chi/jin = heaven/earth/man, yes.
Lasse Candé
etupotkija
Viestit tässä aiheessa: 10
Viestit: 20866
Lauteille: Joulukuu 2007

Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#14

Viesti Lasse Candé »

How long are you going to stay in Hyvinkää? I live relatively close by the same track in Kerava!
rotor
ilmaanpotkija
Viestit tässä aiheessa: 15
Viestit: 16
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Seeking training partners for aiki (Dan Harden) in Hyvinkää

#15

Viesti rotor »

Bump. I'm still looking for people. ;)
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